[308] lifters?,cam?

[v8commie]

so the q is can i change my liffters without taking out the motor? as i will be putting a crane 286 in with these anti pump lifters as i am doing a 308 carby to injection conversion also has anyone dialled in a cam before? or will the motor run alright on standard timing ?also can i resuse the standard headbolts?

 

[DANNY8]

I've always changed lifters when the motors were out for other reasons, but it can be done with the motor in the car. Would be way easier to pull ya intake off, but ya can get a special took which goes down the pushrod hole and sort of clips onto the top of the lifter and ya pull it back up, so ya might even get away with leaving the intake on too.....but ur taking it off anyways for the conversion so yeah just use a flat head screw driver to try and move the lifters up until ya can grab them...otherwise go buy the special took which will make it easier anyways.

I don't think ya have to dial in a cam unless ur after big power, so I wouldn't worry bout that. Just chuck the new cam in and line the dots on the gears up with the coloured links on the chain...or just count the links. 7 links between the dots, or 9 including the links on the dots.

As for ya head bolts.....they aren't torque to yield so would normally be ok to use.....but coz ur using VN heads I'd use the VN head bolts. Just clean them up with a wire brush, use a non hardening thread sealer (we use a genuine holden thread sealer, costs like $50 for a small 250ml container....thats good ****) and remember to put oil under the heads of the bolts.

 

[v8commie]

I've always changed lifters when the motors were out for other reasons, but it can be done with the motor in the car. Would be way easier to pull ya intake off, but ya can get a special took which goes down the pushrod hole and sort of clips onto the top of the lifter and ya pull it back up, so ya might even get away with leaving the intake on too.....but ur taking it off anyways for the conversion so yeah just use a flat head screw driver to try and move the lifters up until ya can grab them...otherwise go buy the special took which will make it easier anyways.

I don't think ya have to dial in a cam unless ur after big power, so I wouldn't worry bout that. Just chuck the new cam in and line the dots on the gears up with the coloured links on the chain...or just count the links. 7 links between the dots, or 9 including the links on the dots.

As for ya head bolts.....they aren't torque to yield so would normally be ok to use.....but coz ur using VN heads I'd use the VN head bolts. Just clean them up with a wire brush, use a non hardening thread sealer (we use a genuine holden thread sealer, costs like $50 for a small 250ml container....thats good ****) and remember to put oil under the heads of the bolts.

ok thanks heaps mate

 

[ari666]

changing cam 'in car' is easy. the trickiest park is taking out your front grille cos' the cam doesnt like it.

(from memory)

ROTATE THE ENGINE TO number 1 TDC!!!!! (nearly forgot that bit. lol)
rocker covers off
inlet manifold off
rockers off and pushrods out
radiator out
water pump off
harmonic balancer off
timing cover off (the gasket on the sump is a BITCH to get back on with the sump on, but taking the sump off 'in car' isnt an option, well not in a VK anyway)


three ways to get old lifters out (if they are going in the bin. if you wanna re-use them go with option 3)
1. welding wire with a 180 degree hook on the end. stick it in the oiling hole and push-pull the lifter till it slides out. sometimes they have gunk on them that makes them a bit hard to come out all the way

2. a blade screw driver. turn the lifter till you find the gap in the spring clip. the screw driver needs to be about 4mm wide or less to fit in the gap. slide it in where the clip is and pull the lifter out. or, the easier way

3. like danny says get a removal tool which does the same thing as option 2 but clips in perfectly and stops you slipping (the screw driver slips a lot, you might even cut yourself, which is really fun cos oil will get in the cut)

once your lifters are out you can take off your timing chain, undo the cam bolt you dont need to take off the oil pump gear but it does make it a bit easier. and slide off the cam sprocket and crank sprocket AT THE SAME TIME, my mate likes to pull off the cam gear first, but he is an idiot, its loads easier if you do it properley and less chance of chipping/stretching stuff.

ok, so now you take off the big arse bolt with the oiling hole in it (forgotten the name, could look it up but CBF) and the weird arse looking piece of steel that locks the cam in.

taking the cam out is really tricky cos' it is SOOOOO easy for one of the lobes to take a chunk off your cam bearing, so be VERY CAREFUL.

stick an old head bolt into the thread on the end of the cam. dont do it up tight cos the threads are different and you will cross thread it. just hand tight will be fine. now you wanna use that bolt to keep the cam perfectly level as you extract it, once you got half the cam out its a lot easier cos' there is more to grip. now, cos the engine is at number 1 TDC, there should be no interference from the crank/rods. so you shouldnt need to 'wiggle it' but you might. so bear that in mind.

anyways, so because you took out the front grille before you took the cam out, you can now pass the camshaft through the front of the car, cos you just noticed that the grille stops it from coming out all the way and cams dont like to bend in the middle.

refiting the cam is the reverse of all that crap. make sure you use LOADS of molybond on the lifter bases/lobes/oil pump drive/distributor drive, and make sure you use loads of oil on the bearing bits. oil on bearings, molybond on lobes. DONT mix the two together.

then you gotta 'break in the cam' so a trip to google and decide which way you like best. crane cams say that break in is 20 mins of progressive acceleration up to 3k rpm then bac kdown to 1500, up to 3k then back over and ovr. i used that method on my last cam install and it worked perfeclty. others on here have different methods, you need to choose which one you want to use. i can safely say that if you dont break in the cam you will lose a lobe.

oh PS use zinc additive in the oil.

oh and dialling in the cam is a waste of time on crane cams, IMO. they are pretty spot on. make sure you get a rollermaster timing chain/gearset and set it at 0 degrees cos' your stock chain is retarded 2 degrees for pollution control purposes.

 

[DANNY8]

With the sump gasket on the bottom of the timing cover, I've found it easy to just rip the black rubber gasket out and use the blue rtv silicone gear to replace it.....that makes it a hell of a lot easier. Just be careful coz ya don't want a small bead, but ya don't want a big one either. To small and she'll leak, to big and you'll get lots of the silicone inside ya motor which will eventually break off and prolly get caught in ya oil pickup.

Another thing I've done is put some blue rtv silicone on both sides of the black rubber gasket, and try and sit it back in. Can be a bitch but it's possible.

 

[v8commie]

changing cam 'in car' is easy. the trickiest park is taking out your front grille cos' the cam doesnt like it.

(from memory)

ROTATE THE ENGINE TO number 1 TDC!!!!! (nearly forgot that bit. lol)
rocker covers off
inlet manifold off
rockers off and pushrods out
radiator out
water pump off
harmonic balancer off
timing cover off (the gasket on the sump is a BITCH to get back on with the sump on, but taking the sump off 'in car' isnt an option, well not in a VK anyway)


three ways to get old lifters out (if they are going in the bin. if you wanna re-use them go with option 3)
1. welding wire with a 180 degree hook on the end. stick it in the oiling hole and push-pull the lifter till it slides out. sometimes they have gunk on them that makes them a bit hard to come out all the way

2. a blade screw driver. turn the lifter till you find the gap in the spring clip. the screw driver needs to be about 4mm wide or less to fit in the gap. slide it in where the clip is and pull the lifter out. or, the easier way

3. like danny says get a removal tool which does the same thing as option 2 but clips in perfectly and stops you slipping (the screw driver slips a lot, you might even cut yourself, which is really fun cos oil will get in the cut)

once your lifters are out you can take off your timing chain, undo the cam bolt you dont need to take off the oil pump gear but it does make it a bit easier. and slide off the cam sprocket and crank sprocket AT THE SAME TIME, my mate likes to pull off the cam gear first, but he is an idiot, its loads easier if you do it properley and less chance of chipping/stretching stuff.

ok, so now you take off the big arse bolt with the oiling hole in it (forgotten the name, could look it up but CBF) and the weird arse looking piece of steel that locks the cam in.

taking the cam out is really tricky cos' it is SOOOOO easy for one of the lobes to take a chunk off your cam bearing, so be VERY CAREFUL.

stick an old head bolt into the thread on the end of the cam. dont do it up tight cos the threads are different and you will cross thread it. just hand tight will be fine. now you wanna use that bolt to keep the cam perfectly level as you extract it, once you got half the cam out its a lot easier cos' there is more to grip. now, cos the engine is at number 1 TDC, there should be no interference from the crank/rods. so you shouldnt need to 'wiggle it' but you might. so bear that in mind.

anyways, so because you took out the front grille before you took the cam out, you can now pass the camshaft through the front of the car, cos you just noticed that the grille stops it from coming out all the way and cams dont like to bend in the middle.

refiting the cam is the reverse of all that crap. make sure you use LOADS of molybond on the lifter bases/lobes/oil pump drive/distributor drive, and make sure you use loads of oil on the bearing bits. oil on bearings, molybond on lobes. DONT mix the two together.

then you gotta 'break in the cam' so a trip to google and decide which way you like best. crane cams say that break in is 20 mins of progressive acceleration up to 3k rpm then bac kdown to 1500, up to 3k then back over and ovr. i used that method on my last cam install and it worked perfeclty. others on here have different methods, you need to choose which one you want to use. i can safely say that if you dont break in the cam you will lose a lobe.

oh PS use zinc additive in the oil.

oh and dialling in the cam is a waste of time on crane cams, IMO. they are pretty spot on. make sure you get a rollermaster timing chain/gearset and set it at 0 degrees cos' your stock chain is retarded 2 degrees for pollution control purposes.

cheers mate

 

[v8commie]

With the sump gasket on the bottom of the timing cover, I've found it easy to just rip the black rubber gasket out and use the blue rtv silicone gear to replace it.....that makes it a hell of a lot easier. Just be careful coz ya don't want a small bead, but ya don't want a big one either. To small and she'll leak, to big and you'll get lots of the silicone inside ya motor which will eventually break off and prolly get caught in ya oil pickup.

Another thing I've done is put some blue rtv silicone on both sides of the black rubber gasket, and try and sit it back in. Can be a bitch but it's possible.

cheers buddy copyd all into a word doc so ive got a procedure sheet

 

[greenfoam]

With the sump gasket on the bottom of the timing cover, I've found it easy to just rip the black rubber gasket out and use the blue rtv silicone gear to replace it.....that makes it a hell of a lot easier. Just be careful coz ya don't want a small bead, but ya don't want a big one either. To small and she'll leak, to big and you'll get lots of the silicone inside ya motor which will eventually break off and prolly get caught in ya oil pickup.

Another thing I've done is put some blue rtv silicone on both sides of the black rubber gasket, and try and sit it back in. Can be a bitch but it's possible.

My original gasket broke off at the front because it was hard like stone, so I coated it in blue silicon and got it back in, took some stuffing around but turned out fantastic in the end

 

[v8commie]

My original gasket broke off at the front because it was hard like stone, so I coated it in blue silicon and got it back in, took some stuffing around but turned out fantastic in the end

yeh? alright will make sure its sealed 200%