Rear Brake upgrade to 2014 SSV Redline Series 1

[Forg]

Lamborghini I understand, they would be bigger but how are the stinger any different?

Don’t forget Brembo is just a brand, it’s not a product; they make a lot of different brakes with a lot of different attributes (and at different price-points too).
For example the Commodore pads & the Stinger pads aren’t interchangeable, they differ ‘cos the calipers differ.

 

[keith reed]

Don’t forget Brembo is just a brand, it’s not a product; they make a lot of different brakes with a lot of different attributes (and at different price-points too).
For example the Commodore pads & the Stinger pads aren’t interchangeable, they differ ‘cos the calipers differ.

How are they any better or worse?

 

[Derekthetree]

How are they any better or worse?

Pot number and diameter I would guess.

 

[Forg]

How are they any better or worse?

I don’t know the answer to that, and I also don’t know WHICH would be better (if at all).
All I know is that they’re not the same as each other.
I just went Googling to see if I could find pad dimension comparisons … and failed. But for both cars they’re 4-piston at the front, looks like VF2 had 4-piston at the rear & Stinger is 2-piston (being the rears I doubt that’d make much difference). VF clamps slightly bigger discs, but that doesn’t definitely mean anything about the calipers.

Also don’t forget you can fit Brembos to a car & they’re not the same, some people are fitting the 6-piston Brembos from a Cadillac to the front of their previously-4-piston VF Redlines. Holden could’ve done that from the factory too, if they’d wanted; as could HSV come to think of it.

This direction of discussion came from a comment about the police not removing Brembos & fitting something else, but I don’t think that KIA or BMW offered as much customisation as Holden did; eg. i doubt KIA or BMW offered a cut-rate option of fitting some home-brand front brakes to cut costs in the way Holden did. So it’d have cost the police more to remove the Brembos from a Stinger & fit something different to what the car came with, and it makes sense they wouldn’t do it.
However if KIA (or BMW with the 335d) had offered a cheaper generic option, which had braking they deemed acceptable, and which lowered the cost, then they’d certainly have seriously considered it; unsure about AU police, but US police went with those cheaper generic brakes for their Caprices.

 

[mpower]

Also don’t forget you can fit Brembos to a car & they’re not the same, some people are fitting the 6-piston Brembos from a Cadillac to the front of their previously-4-piston VF Redlines. Holden could’ve done that from the factory too, if they’d wanted; as could HSV come to think of it.

yes, but they chose 410mm AP Racing instead.

HSV VF GTSR & W1 6 Pot Front Discs & Pads Brakes Kit Pair Rotors 410 x 36mm

HSV VF GTSR & W1 6 Pot Front Discs & Pads Brakes Kit Pair Rotors 410 x 36mm - HSV

www.holmart.com.au

 

[Forg]

yes, but they chose 410mm AP Racing instead.

http://[URL][URL][URL][URL]https://...f-gtsr-w1-6-pot-front-discs-pads-brakes-kit-p

[/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL]

Them’s the most toppest models HSV sold … but they also went with AP (albeit not that big) on everything, didn’t they, even a ‘base’ Clubsport? At least for Gen-F & F2?

 

[keith reed]

I don’t know the answer to that, and I also don’t know WHICH would be better (if at all).
All I know is that they’re not the same as each other.
I just went Googling to see if I could find pad dimension comparisons … and failed. But for both cars they’re 4-piston at the front, looks like VF2 had 4-piston at the rear & Stinger is 2-piston (being the rears I doubt that’d make much difference). VF clamps slightly bigger discs, but that doesn’t definitely mean anything about the calipers.

Also don’t forget you can fit Brembos to a car & they’re not the same, some people are fitting the 6-piston Brembos from a Cadillac to the front of their previously-4-piston VF Redlines. Holden could’ve done that from the factory too, if they’d wanted; as could HSV come to think of it.

This direction of discussion came from a comment about the police not removing Brembos & fitting something else, but I don’t think that KIA or BMW offered as much customisation as Holden did; eg. i doubt KIA or BMW offered a cut-rate option of fitting some home-brand front brakes to cut costs in the way Holden did. So it’d have cost the police more to remove the Brembos from a Stinger & fit something different to what the car came with, and it makes sense they wouldn’t do it.
However if KIA (or BMW with the 335d) had offered a cheaper generic option, which had braking they deemed acceptable, and which lowered the cost, then they’d certainly have seriously considered it; unsure about AU police, but US police went with those cheaper generic brakes for their Caprices.

I agree that the police would if possible go with a cheaper version if possible. The bean counters don't do the driving.

I don't know about other States but high pursuit chases have been stopped here in QLD. The public were put in more danger so going cheaper would make more sense..

Not sure but I think HSV did go wtih a front 6 pot caliper for their supercharged model.

 

[Skylarking]

I agree that the police would if possible go with a cheaper version if possible. The bean counters don't do the driving.

I don't know about other States but high pursuit chases have been stopped here in QLD. The public were put in more danger so going cheaper would make more sense..

Even when going for cheap brakes (because of accountants) the police pursue vehicles still have to meet specific braking and other standards. So even though accountants don’t do the driving, the vehicles still must meet police’s harsh braking standards

Interestingly the standard commodore brakes failed the police brake tests while the upgraded mondo callipers (and their bigger rotor?) passed. And these mondo callipers and rotors were cheaper than having Brembo 4 pot callipers fitted to the cheap police SS variants.

If the polices standards ain’t enough to realise that Brembos 4 pot callipers ain’t needed in police pursuit vehicles (where somewhat harsh driving and braking usage above normal road driving is involved) and that the mondo callipers installed for the Aussie police are sufficient, then I don’t know what to say..

What brake tests are you referring to then? It seems logical to me that a car with 355mm rotors and 4 pot calipers is going to stop quicker than a car with 298 rotors and 2 pot calipers.

All my experience is practical not theory. Fact, my ve ute"s braking was a lot better when fitted with brembo's. My vt clubsports braking was a lot better when fitted with vx gts brakes. My vh's braking was a lot better when fitted with r32 brakes on the front and further improved when fitted with the brakes off the vt. Not as good because no abs, working on that.

Around town the difference would be negligible because of the 60 k speed limit but once out on a winding road they come into there own.

I’m referring to any brake test a magazine would do. I can’t remember them ever specifying vehicle weight as tested (including fluids, drive and any passengers in the vehicle during the test) and the tyres on the vehicle.

Why is this important because on public roads braking is ultimately limited by tyres and ABS calibration. On a track, the rotors ability to reject heat and avoid brake fade for longer also comes into it.

As for upgrading front brakes (rear brakes improve things even less), the interesting thing is that many attribute improved feel to shorter braking distances. Improved feel shouldn’t be discounted as it’s an important attribute but I’ve yet to see any quantitive comparison that clarifies what the improvement in stopping distance actually is for a car having its brakes incrementally improved. Stuff like setting a vehicles base line for old clapped out brakes, then testing new pads on old rotors vs new pads & new rotors vs mondo calliper upgrade vs brembo upgrade would be great… And all this on the same car doing by doing multiple brake tests with cool down between (to test single stop distances) and multiple multiple brake tests (to determine fading resistance) at each configuration would remove the inherent variability, same weight, same tyres, same fuel load, same driver & passengers, that would be an eye opener…

But who would do such tests as there is really nothing in it for car magazines to sell… maybe a better pad compound for the masses?

Having said that, the brakes on my Motorsport are awesome but who knows how the ABS is calibrated as compared to the evoke … I’m suspect there is a tyre compound and footprint difference as well

 

[Forg]

But who would do such tests as there is really nothing in it for car magazines to sell… maybe a better pad compound for the masses?

I think the very few remaining car-enthusiast magazines would have a target market if they were to do it ... but it'd be a very expensive exercise, as to do anything that actually had meaning would cost a pretty penny. It'd take many days, they'd need to hire out somewhere like a race track or the old Holden proving centre (does that exist still?), they'd need a race driver for the whole time to ensure consistency, they'd need quite a few sets of tyres & wheels, they'd probably need a couple of identical cars, etc etc etc.

It's hard enough to do a test which means anything with tyres, and anything relating to brakes is at least 3x as complicated. I can't see they'd get any return on the investment.

 

[mpower]

I think the very few remaining car-enthusiast magazines would have a target market if they were to do it ... but it'd be a very expensive exercise, as to do anything that actually had meaning would cost a pretty penny. It'd take many days, they'd need to hire out somewhere like a race track or the old Holden proving centre (does that exist still?), they'd need a race driver for the whole time to ensure consistency, they'd need quite a few sets of tyres & wheels, they'd probably need a couple of identical cars, etc etc etc.

It's hard enough to do a test which means anything with tyres, and anything relating to brakes is at least 3x as complicated. I can't see they'd get any return on the investment.

i would have thought rolling road and have the computer brake for consistency myself.