[308] rebuild what is needed

[vk5ltr]

now i am building a 308 with vn injection top and am wondering i want to run a crane 286 cam in it i have had the heads shaved 25thou to help the cr abit now i am not yet to know if i have flat tops in my 308 atm but is there anything else i should change with the rebuild to run the cam i already had the cam ,anti pump lifters, gasket kit, rocker shims, blue top injectors, tune on the list for the motor now i heard something that i should change my valve stem seals, valve springs, valve locks, and retainers and a double row timing chain also what is a 3 angle valve grind and a fuel bowl polish worth along with all this what kind of fluids ,oils etc will i need to complete the rebuild? all help highly appreciated also if anyone knows the round about prices of some of these items could you post them if you know the trade price also would i use 308 or 304 head gaskets or are they the same? also would i be better off buying copper head gaskets ? and can i reuse them?

 

[ari666]

i dunno about reusing the copper gasket. you can reuse MLS (multi layered steel) ones though. they cost something like 150 bucks each.

you said you have a double row chain, but is it a chain set or just a chain? cos getting a rollermaster chain-set will mean when you set the cam at 0 itll be at 0, rather than your stock chainset which will me its retarded by around 2 degrees.

i had a bitch of a time with CR and the crane 286, so my advice would be; if it doesnt have flat tops, then get flat tops. cos low CR makes the car go much much slower. and 25 thou off VN heads adds bugger all to the overall CR.

changing locks and retainers is not at all necessary(depending on their condition of course), springs SHOULD be changed, but i believe you can get away with stockies. LT1 performance springs are 130 bucks.

no idea what a 3 angle job and polish will cost ya. my heads were 800 to get bigger valves which included the 3 angle job, throating etc. itll all depend on where you take it. i believe you can go from 1.94 to 2.02 inlet valves without worrying about water jackets on VN heads so prolly find out how much thatll cost.

fluids you will need depend on whether your breaking in the new pistons or just breaking in a cam. in either case use zinc additive and loads of molybond for initial break in then wash it away with good oil. cam takes 20-30 minutes, the wash it away. engine break in varies greatly to whoever you talk to. i do 800kms (if i can last that long, i usually last to about 600 lol) using a breaking in lubricant, then wash it out after the 800kms.

 

[vk5ltr]

i was looking at this crane blue racer cam part no 976812 can some tell me if this is a better choice than the 286 with a 25thou head shave like which would make more power? also i got quoted $600 for a 3 angle valve grind and polishing of the fuel valve area and $300 extra for springs,seals,collets,retainers and maching the seats and fiting etc cam price $280 valve springs $160 collets $50 retainers $120 anti pump lifters $140 shims $25 timing chain set $140 felpro blue gasket kit $80 and now ebay has cam lifters and break in concentrate for $350 timing set $130 collets $23 valve springs around $80-100 depending on which are needed if someones knows could you let me know and also felpro blue gasket kit $85 but i can get the speed shop to beat their prices so that good now do i use 308 or 304 head gaskets?

 

[ari666]

when you say "ebay has cam lifters etc" what do you mean pro comp stuff? cos if so it isnt worth it. get name brands for everything. it isnt worth the risk in your engine.

to get a better idea for cam selection we need to know

compression ratio
inlet manifold
exhaust setup
diff gears
trans/stall converter
greenfoam made a really good write up http://forums.justcommodores.com.au...126529-stock-304-guide-choosing-camshaft.html, very much worth a read.

the rest of your post is just jargon to me, i need punctuation to make heads or tails out of it. soz.

 

[vk5ltr]

i was looking at this crane blue racer cam part no 976812 can some tell me if this is a better choice than the 286 with a 25thou head shave like which would make more power? also i got quoted $600 for a 3 angle valve grind and polishing of the fuel valve area and $300 extra for springs,seals,collets,retainers and maching the seats and fiting etc. speed shops cam price $280, valve springs $160, collets $50 ,retainers $120, anti pump lifters $140, shims $25, timing chain set $140 and felpro blue gasket kit $80. now ebay has cam lifters and break in concentrate for $350 as a kit all crane blue racer, timing set $130, collets $23, valve springs around $80-100 depending on which are needed if someones knows could you let me know and also felpro blue gasket kit $85 but i can get the speed shop to beat their prices so that good now do i use 308 or 304 head gaskets?

thats the edit of that post now to answer your above questions

the cam ,lifters and break in concentrate are all crane items

now compression is standard 304 heads onto 308 block flat tops unknown so if ya could work out a cam with flat tops nd one without then when i get my 308 apart ill get the cam then the head guy said i should get around 9:2:1

standard banana. standard tb, running pod to front bar

pacemaker extractors,twin2.5 inch cat back

now 3.45 but will be changing to 3.9 or 4.11

trans rebuilt trimatic extra clutches etc will be getting a stall can get between 2500-3000 for $600

all help appreciated

 

[ari666]

well, my book says that a stock VN 5.0 (xv2 option, whatever that means) had a comp ratio of 8.4:1 so getting that extra 0.8:1 from a 25cc shave doesnt seem very realistic to me. anyway, crane 286's NEED 9.5:1 as a minimum.

read up on greanfoams thread. cos there is gonna be issues with your bannananananans as well

this is also a really useful tool http://www.csgnetwork.com/compcalc.html as long as you know your head gasket dimensions and chamber CC

so for example, my build is:
308 bore is 4 inch, stroke is 3.062, 4.08 head gasket bore, 20 thou width (MLS) 56cc chambers, 0 dish (flat tops) 20 off 0 deck clearance (i didnt get it zero decked, but chec kthe clearnce b4 i put the heads on)

leaving me with 10.78:1 CR

its still a 'give and take' cos my pistons are 20 tho over which adds to the CR but i am not sure of the exact chamber cc so you would subtract that from the CR.

the rest of your setup is good to go for a big cam, but your banananananans are gonna restrict you and you need some comp

 

[vk5ltr]

well, my book says that a stock VN 5.0 (xv2 option, whatever that means) had a comp ratio of 8.4:1 so getting that extra 0.8:1 from a 25cc shave doesnt seem very realistic to me. anyway, crane 286's NEED 9.5:1 as a minimum.

read up on greanfoams thread. cos there is gonna be issues with your bannananananans as well

this is also a really useful tool Engine Compression Ratio (CR) Calculator as long as you know your head gasket dimensions and chamber CC

so for example, my build is:
308 bore is 4 inch, stroke is 3.062, 4.08 head gasket bore, 20 thou width (MLS) 56cc chambers, 0 dish (flat tops) 20 off 0 deck clearance (i didnt get it zero decked, but chec kthe clearnce b4 i put the heads on)

leaving me with 10.78:1 CR

its still a 'give and take' cos my pistons are 20 tho over which adds to the CR but i am not sure of the exact chamber cc so you would subtract that from the CR.

the rest of your setup is good to go for a big cam, but your banananananans are gonna restrict you and you need some comp

i was told that the stock comp was 8:8:1 but i dunno really but i am using a 308 block with 304 heads so it does have more cubes. with the banana what can i do to improve it? but either way i want to run a 286 or something similar like the crane blue racer cam part no 976812

 

[ari666]

i was told that the stock comp was 8:8:1 but i dunno really

well i am just going from the book. dunno why it would lie to me, it hasnt before

but i am using a 308 block with 304 heads so it does have more cubes.

lol, 76.8 at opposed to 77.7, that one mm makes ALL the difference. thats like me saying "i have a 310 holden cos i oversized the pistons" makes no difference.

with the banana what can i do to improve it?

get a manifold to suit that cam.

 

[sam5l]

hey all im thinkin of doing the same thing and was also thinking of using the crane 286 or 280 or the crane blue racer part number 976812 so wat cans yous tell bout the cams and what could be done to improve the banana manifold

 

[DANNY8]

Jeez how many logins do ya need? How come u keep getting banned?