VR V-8 SS

[Ginger Beer]

Time for some belt driven induction mate

Or a nice sized single turbo

I sort of wish I went with a little spooly boy instead of the PD, especially after I worked out the final cost of getting it to what I thought was the best and most efficient

The initial cost for the HTV2300 installed and tuned was around $15k, then I worked out you really need a interchiller as the WTA alone didn't keep AIT in check, that cost a few grand to purchase, install and retune ( a interchiller is a must with a PD IMO), then for best efficiency of a interchiller I needed thermal spacers, about another $1k, then retune, then, with thermal spacers the PD didn't fit under the bonnet, the only correct way to get it to fit was to clearance the bonnet (I initially tried spacing out the K-frame to lower the engine but that caused issues with the front tail shaft alignment, caused some vibration, and flogged out the front coupler and center bearing, about $1k to get the tailshaft fully rebuilt with new couplers and center bearing and a rebalance), so chop chop on the bonnet was required and the need to fit a Group A bonnet bulge and repaint which cost about $1k

Then, because after removing the spacers on the K-frame for it to fit under the bonnet (it actually hit the bonnet liner at WOT, as the Harrop HTV2300 was designed to "just" fit under the bonnet without thermal spacers, it raised the blower up about 20mm due to the spacers, now the bulge gave me ample clearance from the bonnet

BUT, yeah, there's always a but, now the rear top pulley on the back of the blower was 20mm higher, it did have enough clearance with the K-frame spacers (which needed to be removed as stated above with the tail shaft issue), but then when the engine torqued up at WOT, even with the Mace Unbreakable engine mounts, the rear pulley allen head bolts "just" hit a lip on the firewall (by just I mean about it "didn't miss hitting by 2mm), so off came the blower, and with a little bit of "clearancing" with a hammer and a rattle can rebuild, and swapping out the socket cap bolts for shorter button head, all was well in the world and I had clearance everywhere, finally..........

So all in about $20k and "alot" of issues needing fixing for me to be 100% happy

Don't get me wrong, the car goes great "now", but a well sized and responsive turbo, or 2, with all the quality thermal protection and supporting mods it would require, could have given me typical power to what the PD gave, but without the clearance or IAT issues I ended up with, for quite a bit of saved dollars

Yes, if your doing all the work and tuning yourself it would have cost me a fair bit less, but in saying that, if going turbo there wouldn't have been the clearance, IAT, or as many issues with traction (setting boost control is simple with a good electronic boost controller and a well place "scramble" button)-( the PD with the biggest and lowest PSI pulley that fits, 85mm, gives 900nm at 2500rpm, which was a issues when trying to launch, or even on a 60kph roll, good for skids, crap to dangerous for everything else), hence the requirement for the RaceTCS)

Food for thought for anyone thinking of going PD

As for the RaceTCS, it is in my mind the best budget aftermarket traction control for anything with the stock ECU and a cable throttle, no need to pull timing in areas of the map, which is a double edged sword, if you have traction it gives all of the powers, it only cuts if it goes beyond a set % of wheel spin, and it cuts on and off millisecond fast, the best bit was the log support and updates for tuning all the settings in the configurator, it is top notch, plus the updates come in fast, like typically the same day, and "FREE" to boot, they even look at things like drivetrain inertia when it shifts (I never even thought about how drivetrain inertia effects traction during a shift until they told me about it), my final updated configurator, after sending about 12 logs over 6 days, and getting 6 updates, gave me a 3.96 second 0-100 on my Hankook 255/40 17 street tyres on a dry section of black top, that really speaks for itself as there was no way in hell I could get anywhere close to that 0-100 without it, I still haven't tried my Mickey T 275/40 17 drag radials on that section of black top, let alone at WSID on a "prepped" track, but I do expect good results, hell, I'm more than happy with the 0-100 kph now, but as you can see from the log, the RaceTCS is working hard cutting in 1st on the street tyres, the drag radials can only help with traction, thus less cuts and more available powers

The green line is where the traction control is working, the red is RPM, the blue is KPH

An added bonus now IRT taking the drivetrain inertia into account, is because the drivetrain isn't spinning as hard due to wheel spin at the 1-2 shift, the car how hooks 100% in 2nd on a dry road, before, it would spin through the 1-2 shift, now it just hooks, winner winner chicken dinner

 

[gtrboyy]

4 bolt grout filled n/a setup or side mount blower?

 

[Deuce]

Time for some belt driven induction mate

Lol, not at this stage.
Basically, at a powercruise (Hampton downs) many years ago I beat every other Holden their in the cruise sessions except a black VX with a blower. I wasn't far off either, and that's when I decided to stay N/A, because then losers cannot say to me 'oh yeah, but you're boosted' and even better, if they are boosted I can throw it back at them.

A blower smashing straight down the top of the COME intake, with a giant bonnet hole would be cool too though.

I still remember when you were mulling it over. **** time flies.

Yes, that's right. We chatted quite a bit over different things.
Good times

Or a nice sized single turbo

I sort of wish I went with a little spooly boy instead of the PD, especially after I worked out the final cost of getting it to what I thought was the best and most efficient

The initial cost for the HTV2300 installed and tuned was around $15k, then I worked out you really need a interchiller as the WTA alone didn't keep AIT in check, that cost a few grand to purchase, install and retune ( a interchiller is a must with a PD IMO), then for best efficiency of a interchiller I needed thermal spacers, about another $1k, then retune, then, with thermal spacers the PD didn't fit under the bonnet, the only correct way to get it to fit was to clearance the bonnet (I initially tried spacing out the K-frame to lower the engine but that caused issues with the front tail shaft alignment, caused some vibration, and flogged out the front coupler and center bearing, about $1k to get the tailshaft fully rebuilt with new couplers and center bearing and a rebalance), so chop chop on the bonnet was required and the need to fit a Group A bonnet bulge and repaint which cost about $1k

Then, because after removing the spacers on the K-frame for it to fit under the bonnet (it actually hit the bonnet liner at WOT, as the Harrop HTV2300 was designed to "just" fit under the bonnet without thermal spacers, it raised the blower up about 20mm due to the spacers, now the bulge gave me ample clearance from the bonnet

BUT, yeah, there's always a but, now the rear top pulley on the back of the blower was 20mm higher, it did have enough clearance with the K-frame spacers (which needed to be removed as stated above with the tail shaft issue), but then when the engine torqued up at WOT, even with the Mace Unbreakable engine mounts, the rear pulley allen head bolts "just" hit a lip on the firewall (by just I mean about it "didn't miss hitting by 2mm), so off came the blower, and with a little bit of "clearancing" with a hammer and a rattle can rebuild, and swapping out the socket cap bolts for shorter button head, all was well in the world and I had clearance everywhere, finally..........

So all in about $20k and "alot" of issues needing fixing for me to be 100% happy

Don't get me wrong, the car goes great "now", but a well sized and responsive turbo, or 2, with all the quality thermal protection and supporting mods it would require, could have given me typical power to what the PD gave, but without the clearance or IAT issues I ended up with, for quite a bit of saved dollars

Yes, if your doing all the work and tuning yourself it would have cost me a fair bit less, but in saying that, if going turbo there wouldn't have been the clearance, IAT, or as many issues with traction (setting boost control is simple with a good electronic boost controller and a well place "scramble" button)-( the PD with the biggest and lowest PSI pulley that fits, 85mm, gives 900nm at 2500rpm, which was a issues when trying to launch, or even on a 60kph roll, good for skids, crap to dangerous for everything else), hence the requirement for the RaceTCS)

Food for thought for anyone thinking of going PD

As for the RaceTCS, it is in my mind the best budget aftermarket traction control for anything with the stock ECU and a cable throttle, no need to pull timing in areas of the map, which is a double edged sword, if you have traction it gives all of the powers, it only cuts if it goes beyond a set % of wheel spin, and it cuts on and off millisecond fast, the best bit was the log support and updates for tuning all the settings in the configurator, it is top notch, plus the updates come in fast, like typically the same day, and "FREE" to boot, they even look at things like drivetrain inertia when it shifts (I never even thought about how drivetrain inertia effects traction during a shift until they told me about it), my final updated configurator, after sending about 12 logs over 6 days, and getting 6 updates, gave me a 3.96 second 0-100 on my Hankook 255/40 17 street tyres on a dry section of black top, that really speaks for itself as there was no way in hell I could get anywhere close to that 0-100 without it, I still haven't tried my Mickey T 275/40 17 drag radials on that section of black top, let alone at WSID on a "prepped" track, but I do expect good results, hell, I'm more than happy with the 0-100 kph now, but as you can see from the log, the RaceTCS is working hard cutting in 1st on the street tyres, the drag radials can only help with traction, thus less cuts and more available powers

The green line is where the traction control is working, the red is RPM, the blue is KPH

An added bonus now IRT taking the drivetrain inertia into account, is because the drivetrain isn't spinning as hard due to wheel spin at the 1-2 shift, the car how hooks 100% in 2nd on a dry road, before, it would spin through the 1-2 shift, now it just hooks, winner winner chicken dinner


View attachment 255922

Great breakdown there GB.
Sorry, but not looking at the boosted route.

4 bolt grout filled n/a setup or side mount blower?

Option A please.

 

[Deuce]

I went racing at Masterton dragway today.
No prep street meet.
Strangely they went straight into 2 qualifying each, and then up to 3 practice for anyone willing, and then eliminations, heads up, with your closest 16 grouping to the lowest index.
Qualifying 1,
Wheel spin issues, data cable pulled out of data plug (so no run info), and car wouldn't shift from 2nd to 3rd wide open. Gave up by 3/4 track and coasted home to low mph 15.xx seconds

Changed the shift tables about 10kph lower.
Qualifying 2,
Wheel spin,
Probably 6-7 seconds before I was feeding it full throttle.
Still didn't grab 3rd, a bunch of limiter bashing upto around 6500, in 2nd at 130kph+
Backed off alot so it changed up, got over the line around 15.1

Changed shift tables lower still (another 7kph to around 118indicated)
Practice 1
More of the same bullshit

Found a few other maps to try changes on
Practice 2
Traction was starting to improve as the day got warmer,
Still hit limiter top of 2nd, but was expecting it so tried some stuff to get through it.

Either P1 or P2 was a 14.7
And I think P2 log showed 6600rpm at one point at the top of second not shifting.

Popped the bonnet to just check over, and realised (probably from the rev limiter bashing) the sealant at the front of intake manifold and valley had been pushed out, so a light layer of oil was over the top of the water pump and cam chain cover (this is why we choose bright colours over black)

Luckily my group of 16 was on a 14.55 index so I shouldn't have to tank it to win.

Elimination 1
Much better traction and I was full throttle in 1st gear quite early.
I was against a nice blue Monaro (2000's era) and had him by a bit.
Again it didn't wind 3rd, I was off and on the pedal to try and force it to shift (high road speed vs low throttle %) but it didn't work, maybe I was.too quick, but did it a second time and it shifted, then went through the finish under power, but broke out with a 14.4 and still an okay lead on the Monaro.
Probably should have tanked it early, I just didn't think I would breakout with dramas in my run.

My brother was already planning to pack up, as his WRX was suddenly without 3rd gear mid run (a dozen or so runs before me).
I popped the bonnet and saw oil again, and was starting to suspect my 3rd gear clutches as the culprit of my woes.
So also packed up ready for a careful 2.5hr commute home.


Fun times.

 

[Having A Break]

.

 

[Deuce]

Hey Deuce,
If you're having trouble with your shifts and shift timing, you have to match the rpm with the desired shift speed (in TP).
For example, if you have a shift RPM target of 6500 at 100° TPS, that has to match KM/H of the desired shift. If the gearing has been changed, the shift figures will all need re-doing. The fact that you are showing 6600 @ shift when you are expecting 6450 tells me something is not right. Raise the limit to 6600 (or slightly more) and maybe re-calculate engine speed vs. road speed.

Cheers mate, yeah 122kph transmission speed is like 6-6100rpm so with shift commanded at 118 it should be well into 3rd by then. Although the shift looks to go on/off/on a few times, so might be a dodgy solenoid?

Transmission temperature does not skyrocket, and still looks and smells okay. So possibly not clutches.

I'm pretty sure it used to 2-3shift at WOT fine. Although maybe something else was going on back in that day.

 

[Having A Break]

.

 

[Immortality]

I've been going through his data logs, we think there might be a transmission problem, it's flaring 500rpm after the gear change request but only gaining 1km/h road speed before finally starting to pull the rpm down and increasing speed properly.

Still something weird going on with the tune too but I think we are dealing with a mechanical issue that's getting the engine into the limiter.

 

[Having A Break]

.

 

[Immortality]

I found an error with the tune file, one of the kickdown settings was wrong. This might explain the 2-3-2 shift but need to actually test. It looks like the original tune had the shift point set to high which got the engine into the limiter, then the shift points were reduced but a kickdown setting was missed which then potentially caused the 2-3-2 hick up in later runs.

Also having a look at the VSS settings as something is off there and the recommended calculations provided with 11p doesn't seem to work. There seems to be a slight discrepancy between set shift points (in the tables) and displayed speed/shift point in the log file.

Duece did check the data dash shift solenoids and they seem to show the solenoid switching as per commanded in the tune.

edit: Yes, he modulated the throttle to force the gear change on a couple of runs.